Curse

MisterB · Jun 27, 2009, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

A totally unrelated question (but one that interests me) is whether there's a way to get bladeturn refrain running for an acceptable cost in skillslots and attribute points.

Superior Command on a helmet swap lets you boost up to 10 Command(15% Block) if you run 6+1 or 12(17%) if you run 8+1 without any sacrifice in Spear or Leadership. It will renew at the original attribute level, so you only need the superior command to activate it. You'd need a method to renew it. Technically, it might be possible with TntF!, but not practical in practice, unless you run consumables to lower its recharge.

You could also do something similar with a superior rune and expert salvage on a hero for a stronger effect since they're probably carrying an anthem you can renew anyway.

Chthon · Jun 28, 2009, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Superior Command on a helmet swap lets you boost up to 10 Command(15% Block) if you run 6+1 or 12(17%) if you run 8+1 without any sacrifice in Spear or Leadership. It will renew at the original attribute level, so you only need the superior command to activate it. You'd need a method to renew it. Technically, it might be possible with TntF!, but not practical in practice, unless you run consumables to lower its recharge

That's an excellent point. But we're still looking at sacrificing an attack skill for an anthem. Are there any options strong enough to justify doing that?

Puzur · Jun 30, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Since a Imbagon can get tons of energy I used to have Song of Power as something nice to give to casters between battles.

Racthoh · Jun 30, 2009, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puzur

Since a Imbagon can get tons of energy I used to have Song of Power as something nice to give to casters between battles.

A skill that's use comes outside of combat doesn't seem worth the spot, especially when the bar is already cramped for space.

Chthon · Jul 09, 2009, 03:31 AM // 03:31

I was fooling around with FtW the other day and I noticed two more reasons to strongly consider slotting it in place of an attack skill:

1. Spike. Stack it on top of the remaining attack skill (+ EBSoH + Orders + etc) for a very, very big hit. Yeah, I know that spiking is nowhere near as valuable in PvE as PvP, but it's sill worth something.

2. Prevents AR failure. After about the third time I found myself thinking "damn I'm lucky; I could have sworn I was too late on that TNtF, but AR is still up," it finally dawned on me: FtW is a self-targeting shout, so it renews AR. This gives a significant safety buffer against both poor concentration (that's me!) and things monsters do to interfere with timing TNtF.

FtW indeed.

MercenaryKnight · Jul 25, 2009, 04:30 AM // 04:30

My suggestion is that even though ftw is decent the recharge is too long. The 15 seconds mean you may get it onto 1 or 2 people before the battle is over (if your team is good). Ok if you precast as your entering battle maybe 3 enemies but upwards of 4 + would be rare unless your aggroing more during battles or it's a hard group.

At 7req ftw does 26 damage which would result in 14 in spear and slayer's spear does 24 damage with a 4 second recharge. It is almost a give in that every monster out there will have more health then you especially if you use it as an initiating attack. The deep wound lasts a nice 19 seconds which should be more than enough to finish them off.

With the sy spamming you will have the energy to be able to use slayer's spear quite often and thus spamming deep wound.

Racthoh · Jul 25, 2009, 05:48 AM // 05:48

It'll depend on which version of the bar you run. Some have the luxury of more energy some do not.

MercenaryKnight · Jul 25, 2009, 07:08 AM // 07:08

My bar was basic imbagon. 2 attack skills, fgj, fa, ar, ebon ward, tntf, sy.

Even if you have some energy problems, you'd have the same problems trying to "spam ftw". I am pretty sure you'll have enough energy enough of the times to get more uses out of it throughout the area than ftw just due to recharge alone.

Most older bars consistently spammed lightning spear and vicious attack. If it did have some kind of energy problems I wonder if bringing slayer's spear and go for the eyes for added energy replacement would be better than running 2 attack skills.

Save yourselves would require a bit higher rank cause you'd be adding an adrenaline skill with go for the eyes. But the extra energy would result in spamming deep wound a whole lot more.

Will have to take a damage comparison to see if it'd be worth it. I don't have my comp working atm so if anyone else would like to test them out feel free. Otherwise when I get my comp up and running I will try it out.

Racthoh · Jul 25, 2009, 09:21 AM // 09:21

With Dark Fury I'd have the energy to hit Swift Javelin and Vicious Attack on recharge, as well as everything else (although I'd save EBSHonor until Dark Fury was up again to maintain the uptime of "Save Yourselves!"). Without Dark Fury I'd slot Spear of Lightning instead (assuming you have Order of Pain alongside Dark Fury) of Swift Javelin which made mashing the skills on recharge no longer an option as a result of the faster recharge and lack of adrenaline shout spamming. Occasionally I'd find myself swapping weapon sets for "There's Nothing To Fear!", Focused Anger, "For Great Justice!", and EBSHonor when I'd get overzealous with the two attack skills as I tried to make something die. "Find Their Weakness!" has a second less than twice the recharge of Vicious Attack at twice the energy cost so making the shift after the update was a simple transition. The only thing I noticed, hard mode specifically, was a lot more deep wounds coming from myself and my paragon heroes.

Slayer's Spear is twice the energy cost at half the recharge of Vicious Attack with a deep wound conditional that I'm not too fond of. If I can't get the deep wound and can't make something die I'd regret having it because +damage per energy is less than Vicious Attack and "Find Their Weakness!" (when you factor in the guaranteed deep wound). If you were to use Slayer's Spear I wouldn't use another attack skill with it, especially if con sets are a factor. In which case I'd consider... Bladeturn Refrain in the other spot? I'm not sure what could really replace the slot personally, at least with the mindset I have when playing the character. Maybe some kind of utility like Wild Throw just to speed up those annoying enemies with dodge stances.

"Find Their Weakness!" just has so much about it that I like. Pre-casting as already mentioned and peace of mind with Aggressive Refrain as Chthon brought up. While swapping head pieces to get a 25 second Aggressive Refrain is simple enough using "Find Their Weakness!" would definitely help newer players to the role who have troubles maintaining the echo. Another thing I really like about it is how it gets around Blind, by which I mean if I get Blinded I can shout at someone else and they'll get the deep wound on. A unique trait that I've grown quite fond of. Not only Blind mind you, but when I need to swap targets to maintain "Save Yourselves!" I can still get that deep wound on the real target I want dead. It's quite a handy skill to have around.

G Marci · Sep 19, 2009, 06:38 PM // 18:38

I didn't read the whole thread, i just want to say, that if you're playing with Heros & Henchman, You should bring Ebon Battle Standard... EBS effects minions too, and with a nice ebon rank, it can boost minion's dmg output nicely. It also effects spells (wich are not armor ignore-ing, so it doesnt effect discord) and normal attacks, and henchmen like to wand a lot.

In my oppinion Spear of Fury's only good use is to build up enaugh adrenaline for SY when the battle starts... in normal case you should be able to spam SY constantly without Spear of Fury.

And of course there is the all time favourite, Drunken master, i always use it if im lazy to spam Anthems for AR.

MercenaryKnight · Sep 20, 2009, 07:12 AM // 07:12

I wonder if that battle standard ward would increase damage from the spirits. If so arkfenway + imbagon with battle standard would pump out a great deal of damage. Especially with signet of ghostly might to make them attack faster.

I also have to figure out if I am gonna be lazy or not with my voltaic spear. I usually never weapon swap from being so lazy, so I don't know if I should stick vampiric, furious or sundering mod on it. I will most likely add the vamp and switch, but it'll be annoying to go from an ugly spear to the voltaic all the time.

Ccat · Sep 20, 2009, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I wonder if that battle standard ward would increase damage from the spirits. If so arkfenway + imbagon with battle standard would pump out a great deal of damage. Especially with signet of ghostly might to make them attack faster.

I also have to figure out if I am gonna be lazy or not with my voltaic spear. I usually never weapon swap from being so lazy, so I don't know if I should stick vampiric, furious or sundering mod on it. I will most likely add the vamp and switch, but it'll be annoying to go from an ugly spear to the voltaic all the time.

Ward Spell. You plant an Ebon Battle Standard of Honor at your current location. For 14...20 seconds, non-Spirit allies in this area strike for +8...15 damage and an additional +7...10 vs. Charr.

No Dice.

Chthon · Sep 20, 2009, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I also have to figure out if I am gonna be lazy or not with my voltaic spear. I usually never weapon swap from being so lazy, so I don't know if I should stick vampiric, furious or sundering mod on it. I will most likely add the vamp and switch, but it'll be annoying to go from an ugly spear to the voltaic all the time.

Imbagons don't need to switch off their vamp sets. That TNtF you're casting to keep AR up between fights more than covers the health loss.

MercenaryKnight · Sep 20, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Yeah I guess I never realized the tntf heal would help keep it up. I also shouldn't post when i'm tired since I may have realized the non spirit allies thing.

I kind of wish for pve you could have multiple offensive rit spirits and that the ward would increase their damage. That would be the most insane damage ever, bosses like duncan, mallyx and the like would go down so quickly.

MisterB · Sep 20, 2009, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I kind of wish for pve you could have multiple offensive rit spirits and that the ward would increase their damage.

Can't be done with the ward, but that is what Signet of Ghostly Might and Painful Bond are for. Paragons may also boost damage a little with Anthem of Envy, but it's just a single "attack."

MasterSasori · Sep 23, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Thought that someone should mention Barbed Spear

because it can speed up discordway which is of course, all the rage.

And I like GftE just because I like spamming it and watch the blue bar go up. Not that it's necessary by any means.

MercenaryKnight · Sep 23, 2009, 06:16 AM // 06:16

The only negative about barbed spear is no added damage. Generally gfte isn't needed because of save yourselves on the generic imbagon build is easy to spam. Just to add to the discussion.

Ccat · Sep 23, 2009, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

The only negative about barbed spear is no added damage. Generally gfte isn't needed because of save yourselves on the generic imbagon build is easy to spam. Just to add to the discussion.

just to add, for 4second Imbas GftE! is a big nono because it subtracts from SY! which will need another hit to activate after the use of GftE!.

Barbed Spear is kind of a waste. It doesn't work against non-fleshies, and if you are using Discord, Jagged Horrors should be spreading all the conditions you need with bleeding and Novas. It is also worthy to mention bleeding is the worst condition ever.

If you really do need a condition, put it on your heroes because Paragons were never good for Deep Wound, a more useful condition. By all means Vicious Attack should be taken but if you need a condition ASAP, let your heroes carry it. Discord should never be struggling for conditions (as far as I can remember it carries about 8), but if you're facing removal THAT heavy, use Barbed and Asuran Scan.

MasterSasori · Sep 24, 2009, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ccat

just to add, for 4second Imbas GftE! is a big nono because it subtracts from SY! which will need another hit to activate after the use of GftE!..

True. But not if ur 6 sec

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ccat

Barbed Spear is kind of a waste. It doesn't work against non-fleshies, and if you are using Discord, Jagged Horrors should be spreading all the conditions you need with bleeding and Novas. It is also worthy to mention bleeding is the worst condition ever.

Not necessarily. Not every Discord build runs Jagged Horrors and if u want to target a few specific monsters, I find this skill useful. Sometimes the condition spread doesn't go fast enough anyway. And yes it is the worst condition - but its still a conditon.